typo

Sorry that should have been 'misleading advertising'. .. or maybe 'extremely misleading advertising'

www.olosurfer.com

asr

need more info regarding surf reefs, what beach break are you talking about that got runied was it in Oz or Nz and is the reef still not working?have heard of one going in a good spot just wondering if it will work out.

Hi Maxxmas, The break was

Hi Maxxmas,

The break was at Tay st Mount Maunganui New Zealand, don't be fooled by the ASR propaganda the new reef is really hopeless and the spot was previously excellent . . . ASR maintained in their hype that the beach was previously a closeout, which is bunkum it used to crank, and take 50 or 60 surfers comfortably, also it was a regular contest site for over 30 years.

When surfing the mount these days, no one ever seems to mention the reef as a surfing option, it is as if that part of the beach has been erased from the map.

Here's a picture from the pre reef days

.

www.olosurfer.com

All the banks?

Hi Roy - are you saying that the reef has ruined all the banks along the Marine parade road?

Tay St on Google maps

www.olosurfer.com Hi Sam,

www.olosurfer.com

Hi Sam, no, it has only ruined about 800 metres to 1km, the breaks further down are still good. The area which the reef has shadowed or otherwise wrecked had a consistent sandbar which would provide 300 to 400 metre rides left and right, sometimes the sandbar spacing would be closer so it would be 2 peaks going each way, but the righthanders in particular could be epic.

The next spot down the line at Clyde st is also very good, but each one has a slightly different character, the break at Tay st was well loved, and is missed by many.

When I went to the Bay of Plenty Times chief reporter, pre reef construction ( they are basically a branch of the local council who were in favour of the reef, and promoted it heavily ) with an article about a reef on the Gold Coast which was falling to bits, and offered the opinion that the reef was unecessary anyway, along with photos of the existing break working, I was told that I had no right to speak unless 100% of my income came from the surf industry and I employed a significant number of people in the surf industry, he then started mumbling about calling the security guards.

At that time most but not all Mount Maunganui surfers were in favour of the reef, and criticising the idea was really almost a waste of time, now it's the other way around, and most surfers there, apart from surf shop owners who are still part of the promotional machine, can see clearly that the reef is a just a waste of resources.

Fact is that we already had beautiful hollow shortboard waves at Matakana island only a short paddle away ( not that Tay st couldn't be ridden on shortboards, it can, but the Island is just a perfect hiollow wave, enough said ) and the Island can cater to hundreds of surfers, it's 26 km of beach ( although the best waves are at either end.

So whichever way you slice it we didn't need it, even if it worked, which it doesn't.

The Council have put aside $50,000 in case it needs to be removed but most likely it will just sit there till it rots in 20 years time or earlier, and we will have to pick up the bits of plastic it is made of. Removal would cost more than 50k, and would mean a tiff with ASR.

Cheers

Roy

Your opinon?

Roy - Here is the latest news update from ASR on the projects around the world. In it they explain what the current state of the reef is and why there have been problems.

On the www.mountreef.co.nz site there are more explanations

This sand bar has formed over the last 8 months due to a prolonged El Nino weather pattern (very little swell and offshore winds). According to EBOP this is affecting beaches all over the Bay, not just the Mount Reef.

A common misconception about the reef is that it will ‘make waves’. You can’t make waves if you don’t have swell! This has been the case for many months in the Bay of Plenty; hence the reef would appear not to be working to the casual observer.

Another common misconception is that the reef will break on all tides. The relationship between water depth and swell size determines when the reef breaks. For example, high tide with a small swell won’t break, high tide with a big swell will. There are infinite combinations of water depth and swell size which determine if and when the reef breaks. Other contributing factors include wind direction (onshore/offshore) and strength.

Does this stack up now you have more information?

Mount reef footage

Sam, the Mount coast produces waves which are way better in every respect than that tiny reef wave . . . including really nice barrels if you know how to get into them, way better than the brief pocket shown in the video footage.

Also, the reef hardly ever breaks, and has ruined a spot which cranked out rides 200 to 400 metres long on a good day

The whole concept is based on the idea that the coast should be altered to suit current surfboard fashions. . . rather than designing boards to suit the coast that Huey designed for us.. . . it's just a giant scam, and the reef should be removed asap.

( BTW I was replying to your post below, in reply to the post above, it's just more ASR excuse making, the previous banks were surfable on every kind of swell, and now asr, who previously said the reef would make the surf more consistently surfable, is blaming the swell conditions for the fact that it is way less consistent than the natural coastline )

The previous bamks could entertain 100 or more surfers too, by the way, and were a contest venue for many decades.

The problem is that there are people who insist upon riding the kind of equipment you have in your avatar. . . a trick board which needs special conditions in which to function. . . kind of like digging up the road and building it with square bumps just so that people can drive square wheeled cars. . . bloody ridiculous.

.

.

www.olosurfer.com

Hmmmm

Nice to see you back Roy

Anyway sent a email to a friend who lives at the Mount about your claim of 200 to 400 meter rides at Tay St before the reef was built and he reckons that you're on another planet? So I had a look at the video on the site and those are long rides that you're getting - where were they filmed?

As for my board in my picture, I wouldn't call it a trick board, it's quite a standard big fish - 6'4" 19.5" by 2.5" . It's horses for courses isn't it? I'd rather get a shorter steeper section where I can put some turns and pull off the back with some speed - other people like to ride a long board with all the way in the white water until they can jump off at the beach.

I'd say it'd be boring if we all surfed the same...and no way does one board fit all waves.

Planets

Hi Sam,

Of course I am on another planet . . . . I get longer rides than those on lesser equipment !

The videos on olosurfer.com are just of average days, and are all taken at the Mount, at least half of them are from Tay st/Clyde st.

In fact I have had rides of 600 metres on occasion, from the south side of shark alley down through to grove ave, and also at the Main Beach on big days.

We have measured the rides using gps and google earth . . . most surfers (probabaly including your friend ?) don't bother to do this so really have no idea how far they are travelling.. . it can be a deceptively long way

Of course everyone should ride what they like, but altering the coastline to suit one's equipment is wrong, it should be the other way around. . . .

The advantage of longboards at the Mount isn't just in getting long rides, the fact that they can link sections better means that they can slot into the hollower inside sections more often, and hit those sections with more speed.

Regarding one board fitting all waves, I have a couple of longboard designs which pretty much do that, I'm building one at present ( neither of these designs are shown in our current videos ) for the swaylocks Hawaii challenge which we started up, it's a board which loves the hollowest of waves while still doing the deed on gentler swells. . . kind of a universal surfboard

.

www.olosurfer.com

Recent footage

This is from the 15th of Jan this year - looks like they're having fun?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-9030932205498104895&hl=en-GB

artificial reefs

SUPPORTERS of Opunake's artificial surf reef say they are determined to push on despite a major setback with Mt Maunganui's reef.
Last week Tauranga-based Bay Underwater Services, which had been involved in building the Mount's reef, pulled out of the project, claiming it was owed thousands of dollars by the Mount Reef Trust.
Owner Rob Campbell said he initially had faith the project would work but now doubted if either reef would be able to be finished. "The proof is in the pudding. The Mount reef is just sitting out there."
Mr Campbell, who has 22 years experience in the construction industry, said work on the right- hand-side of the reef was complete, apart from one bag which needed to be replaced. "It should be causing waves now and it doesn't and it is not going to."
Progress on the Mount's reef is being watched closely by Opunake residents.
The Opunake Surf Reef Trust has so far spent $1.1 million on its project and only three of 28 geo-textile bags are in place. The trust has another $600,000 available from the TSB Community Trust to finish the job.
After doing some sums, taking into account what work had been done on Opunake's reef and what needs to be done, Mr Campbell reckons it would cost more than $11 million to finish.
Raglan-based ASR Ltd (Amalgamates Solutions and Research) designed and is building both reefs.
Mr Campbell said design work for the reefs was done in a swimming pool and did not take into account sand migration in the sea.
New Plymouth Underwater Ltd managing director Mike Sharp said the Mt Maunganui experience was not setting off any alarm bells and he still had faith in the design and concept of the Opunake reef.
"They have got such good potential, it is a matter of ironing out the bugs."
Mr Sharp would like the bags to be modified to allow them to fill faster but, as they had already been bought and paid for, he said that would only add to the cost of completing the reef.
Reef trustee and Opunake businesswoman Maureen Gatenby said the reef would be completed by March 2008 within budget _ "all going well."
Mrs Gatenby said Mr Campbell's estimate of $11 million to finish the reef was way off track.
ASR Opunake reef construction manager David Neilson said it would not cost $11 million to complete.
Mr Neilson would not make any further comment and directed inquiries to ASR managing director Kerry Black, who refused to comment to the Taranaki Daily News yesterday.

Interesting article

Interesting article downtoearth, regarding the 'pus' comment, it's only teenage wanabees with shortboards, hungover highway surfers, blow in fashion victims and surfers of low ability who want to look tough who call the Mount 'Pus' . . . . the real crew do nothing of the sort.

www.olosurfer.com

interesting comment Roy

I heard it a few times and not be be offensive to those I heard it from it some seemed to fit the profile you describe. Being from abroad I'd never heard the comment before but when I checked google earth it seemed to fit so well to the product,its placement and its effects that I could not help but call it a pimple. I just couldnt help it.

Also the people who you descibe also seem to be those that the marketing is aimed at and those who respond greatly to that sort of stimulation. I spoke to some german students doing a tourism marketing degree at bournmouth and they did a project on the reef proposed there, they suggested that there was some sort of "mass debate" going on with everyone effected saying how good the reef will be when its finished. They could not get any serious information than that from the supporters -like they had been indoctrinated into a "cult" of wanna have "a good feeling when its finished"
The girls (they tend to be more mature much earlier) wrote it off as a "swindle" by "shisters" and asked if tar and feathering was what happened if it "WASNT GOOD WHEN IT WAS FINISHED" Stocks and rotten fruit were also spoken of - but it is sad for the $$$$ involved and the youngsters that were promised fun.

But who knows with sea levels rising in 20 to 50 years the MT bags may just suddently one day "rise" from the deep like the phoenix from the ashes in the image of the designers to say "i told you that it would work" and see now that its finished ...........................

I dont know if you have noticed but the idea of owning patents to every good artificial reef on every beach world wide may have taken a setback with the reef and opanake umm 'Delayed -more money needed'.

Did you hear about the people who keep sending money to nigeria with the promise of "10million usd" being transferred to their bank account, just some more money and you will feel good with the millions in your account - they keep sending till theres no more to send, I'm not comparing anything here except people on a "trip" dont like leaving the feeling and in fact can be addicted to that good feeling of anticipation.

But there seems to be a consistant pattern of behavior evolving with some people in opunake saying that a whisper went round that someone just down the road would get theirs first - so they were sort of prodded with a second best scenario by someone. have you ever seen "tinmen"?

Misleading Roy

Dear Roy - With respect to your 8 postings in this forum on the Mount Reef and your direct correspondences (outbursts) to the Mount Reef Trust, I cannot understand your motivation? Even so, these postings of yours are incorrect and slanderous, and carry your propaganda, although since it's the net, it seems anyone can write what they like, plus people on the other side of the world would have no idea what's going on at the Mount.

You are directly attacking a New Zealand Company and it's Managing Director with your own lies and propaganda. I expect that you would be aware that construction of the Mount Reef has been undertaken by a local contractor (not ASR), and that ASR has undertaken 10 bathymetry surveys at no cost to the Trust for Resource Consent conditions and provided considerable uncharged support to the Mount Reef Trust? ASR has been very transparent about the success of the Mount reef and where it is at with respect to construction all through the process (now about 60% complete, although at one stage (October 2006) it was considered to be 90%), and has neither lied about it, nor provided misleading advertisement on the subject. On the contrary, ASR have posted only one wave from the Mount reef on our own website, a 17-frame sequence which was used with permission from www.caughtonradar.com that were taken of the Mount reef in January this year - the contrast between the waves on the reef and those on the beach is very obvious when these shots are compared to those taken an hour before of waves on the beach, i.e. the beach waves are not barreling.

Using direct observations and access to the robocam that views Mount reef, surfer counts of people using the reef have been undertaken since March this year, and again, contrary to your claims, there are surfers on the reef and surrounding banks (which are positivefly influenced by the reef in terms of surfing) regularly, and when the conditions are right there are more on the reef than on the surrounding banks.

Your statements about destroying 800 m to 1 km of banks at Tay Street are also complete rubbish - indeed, your 'olo olo olo... Etc video you have posted looks remarkably like Tay St, containing a segment the also looks remarkably like surfers on the reef and a wave breaking off the back of the reef, seen clearly after the shakey seagull shot; nice turns... As part of the Resource Consent conditions for the Mount Reef, bathymetry and beach surveys are regularly taken to monitor the beach response, these data and the surfers at Tay St surfing (on the beach and reef) also indicate your ascertions are fable.

P.s. I know Kerry Black well, he still surfs at the age of 56, and last month was surfing in Indo for 2 weeks.
--
lets evolve not devolve

More bureaucratic double talk

No doubt it is easy for those with no scruples to claim that the surrounding banks have been influenced positively by the reef when compared with ASR advertising lies e.g. that the area was an
" unsurfable closeout" prior to the reef . . . but it's just more doubletalk, the neighbouring banks were already excellent, and Tay st was not a closeout pre reef except for people with unsuitable equipment and low skill levels.

My motivation for what I have said is simply to call it the way I see it, and as I see it the waves at Tay st during the preceding three decades were much better than what is there now post reef, the Tay st bank had its own unique character, subtly different from the neighbouring Clyde st and Grove ave banks, and I mourn its passing just as I mourn the passing of many ancient Pohutakawa trees murdered in the area by the same council which permitted the reef.

In my opinion altering the coastline just to suit current surfboard fashions is a form of insanity, and there were better and faster barrels there pre reef if you knew how to find them.

I detest everything about the council and ASR led meddling with the beach, and always will, it just goes against my entire being and philosophy. . .

By the way saying that "when conditions are right" there are more surfers on the reef than on surrounding banks is a circular argument. . . sounds impressive but doesn't mean much other than "when there are more surfers on the reef there are more surfers on the reef" !! . . . start qualifying your statistics with "when conditions are right" and you are arleady way down the slippery slope of propaganda mongering

.

www.olosurfer.com

marvins right -heres a good report on the Mount reef

The following is also a extract from The Surfermag

http://surfermag.com/features/onlineexclusives/stfrancisrejuvenate/

"If Dr. Mead’s other projects are anything to go by, the surfers in St. Francis Bay are in for a real treat. “In good conditions the right will be a very good barreling wave,” he says, adding that, “If you look at the Mt. Reef project in New Zealand, once it was completed we’ve seen 50 meter long barrel rides on that wave. And we are looking at probably a 100 meter long wave in St. Francis, so there will be a section in that which will be a high quality wave for competent to expert surfers.” "

J Bay

Thanks for posting that downtoearth3 - the ASR project at St Francis Bay looks very exciting there's a bit more info here. I hope that the document explaining the construction process and problems help people understand at what stage the reef is at. Reefs are good and they're going to get better - more quality waves for everybody, it's got to be a winner.

So which way are you actually going with this downtoearth as you've presented a couple of conflicting posts? More info the better for everyone I say... Are you NZ based ?

So you believe the

So you believe the Surfermag/ASR propaganda rather than the facts from the grassroots local surfers ?

The same syndrome that happened at the Mount is happening here. . . surfers just can't resist the exciting idea of a pipeline at their local break. . . this makes them easy meat for the propaganda machine as their critical faculties are woefully sluggish. . . most surfers are already victims of the global McDonalds surf industry hype anyway so they have effectively already sold their souls to the machine . . . . .of course the propaganda /advertising is carefully designed to make the willing victims believe that they are exercising free chioice and buying into grass roots 'soul' whern making their choice of colour with their latest plastic purchase or saying yes to artificial reef excitement. . . . but really they are just doing what they are told to do.

The same surfers who were avidly pro reef at the Mount are now the exact opposite. . . unless they work for ASR

www.olosurfer.com

Welcome to the machine

Have you read the document Roy? - if so make some points on what you don't agree with.

Other wise is your argument simply that ASR are a bunch of non surfing con men who are trying to rip New Zealanders off? If that's the case, hasn't there got to be an easier way than a large public engineering project in their own country, using highly auditable public money with their academic reputations at stake?

I myself am not a great supporter of the modern surfing industry - as you can see I don't have modern flashing ads all over my site. But innovative technology such as artificial surfing reefs are a different story.

You're welcome to make your points - but I'm feeling a mild hypocrisy here when it come to propaganda and advertising as every one of your posts has a link to your site at the bottom, on which you're blatantly selling stuff to consume? Welcome to the machine Roy...you're just another small cog

Wow, a black wetsuited 'soul

Wow, a black wetsuited 'soul surfer' without logos, amazing ( rolls eyes to heaven )

I am not part of the surf industry machine, I am an independent boardbuilder using wood who stands directly against nearly everything the surf industry does . . . I am an enemy of the surf industry and actively promote doing it all yourself !

In any case you have your blinkers on and have made up your mind already, so no point in wasting my valuable time further

www.olosurfer.com

i say mead publishing its finished is good enuff

If a Doctor says to an international surfing magzine that the mount is complete and producing 50m barrels it must be. If he is a surfer as well he would not give misleading information to the global surfing public like that.

Where am I going - just picking up bits n pieces along the way. DR Shaw mead (surfer?) saying to an international surfing magazine that the Mount reef is finished and producing 50m barrels is ok by me -or else why would a diligent credible international magazine with a proper editorial process publish such a thing? Theres strict rules for that sort of thing concerning false and misleading information
its ok for us to talk on this post we dont have the same standards that Doctors and editors have in making sure what they publish stands up to scrutiny. As it stands I believe a Doctor and Magazine editor -the Mount reef is a huge success with 50m barrels and South African surfers are in for a REAL TREAT.

Publishing on the accredited world magazine forum is another scene altogether that we have to respect for truthfullness.

That's really stupid

You have to be joking !!

I can't believe that you are so stupid that you automatically believe what surfermag and ASR say in spite of the facts.

In case you didn't know it your are using the classic 'argument from authority' a well known logical fallacy.

I know a doctor in raglan who spent a few years in jail for stealing several million dollars from the taxpayer through deliberate fraud. . .the idea that being a doctor means that a person is truthfull is ludicrous. . . and as for surfing magazine editors, they are some of the worst liars around. . . i have personal experience of that I can assure you !

The bottom line is that the reef is a failure.

www.olosurfer.com

doctors and surfing reefs

why would dr meade say something that could be false and misleading such as "when the reef was finaly finished" saying publically and in print on a global publication if it was not correct and true?

why would he say that it produces "50m barrels" again if it were not true?

I find it very difficult to believe that anyone let alone a person who goes throught the very difficult process of learning to only deal with the truth could ever say false and misleading statements such as that -is he a surfer ? what possibly could he compromise himself for to do that?

History is full of well

History is full of well qualified liars. . . did you see my example of the Raglan Doctor who defrauded the NZ government of 1.3 million ?

As mentioned previously you are using a wel known fallacious argument known as the argument from authority. .. try a course in logic perhaps.

www.olosurfer.com

whats going on with these reefers????

check out the download from ASR, it seems there were some really dodgey contractors involved , I just cant work out who was responsible for what, in IT where I work NO-ONE gets paid until the final product segment gets a sign off from the specialists who oversee the contract - so what went wrong here - ASR says contractors caused all malfunctions and delays , funny that in their report the reef was not ever finished but Surfer magazine says it is and producing 50m barrels -whats goin on here?? I'm getting more questions than answers and being bounced from pillar to post with really conflicting info and signals????

doctors ,reefers and a few bucks more

Yes, sorry Roy,i saw your post but am getting a bit messed up here , initially i saw some negative stuff from you and another and posted the other, then i got given a surfer magazine and started to think that you were just the "grumpy man" from the muppets and posted the surfer mag stuff , look to be honest I'd rather believe the surfermag report but then I remembered that publisher that was a multi-multi millionare over here that just got into a liitle trouble and I read the ASR download from the first page and got further messed up in the conflicting information, again I'm happier to accept the Surfer mag and Dr Meades report but am getting a bit of a mindmess in what to believe. For yourself and that other i posted to get so "rialled up" as a stepped on "rattler" means that somewhere and somehow something may be amiss -but everyone cant always be happy about the way things can progress ( especialy if they get stepped on).
Roy have you been stepped on?
Theres rules about advertising and publishing and surfer mags also have to comply.
The ASR report doesnt say anything about 50m barrels and the reef being finished.
The ASR report just says -dodgey contractor - but that dont help me if I've paid for the software and the first atm transaction sends money to everyone's account in Eastern Europe or the roof of the condo fell in a shower of rain - I paid to stay dry with money to live!
the idea of good surf is just too hard to give up so i am a bit hooked on that. so a few thousand gets wasted on a "something" that shows some promising results -it must be able to produce results for a couple of thousand more? sand does cost anything so whats the problem about the service contract and maintence schedules -we have that all the time and the provider keeps small bugs in check by releasing updates -why not here? sands free -plastic bags cant be that expensive. How much do these things cost? a few bucks extra thrown at it should be all that needed? someone help me out here?
who is the providor in these things -ASR says it does all -even getting its hand dirty-what does that mean? Is ASR the providor? If so just help 'em out with a few bucks more these 50m barrels just sound soooo- ggooood. ( i want emm on our beach).

www.olosurfer.com

Downtoearth the ASR charlatans are not as brilliant as you think they are, as they have failed to understand that sandbags sink when placed upon sand. . . . a basic error which dooms the project and any like it.

In case you didn't realise it, the Tay st banks produced very good surf. ... way better than the any short, 'mechanical' reef wave. . . Tay st produced excellent tubes. . . not served up on a plate, but they were there. . . . artificial reefs as a concept are designed for surfers who lack the skills required to surf challenging waves and instead just lazily go for the 'wave pool' mentality.

Kerry Black and his colleagues are liars and charltans, and they are taking advantage of the gullibility of surfers to line their pockets at taxpayer expense. . . they should be imprisoned for fraud.

.

dissent on artificial surfing reefs for tsunami relief money

asr promoting artificial surfing reef in india with tsunami relief moneyBy downtoearth3 at 10:09am There is some dissent in the way that Tsunarmi relief money may be "diverted" to an artificial surfing reef in India. Sounds allright to me, a good wave will always defeat hunger and shelter requirements.
Some people just dont understand how good waves can relieve all those other necessities of life. The children? they have the perfect conditions to be able to learn to surf!
Why would anyone ever think that this was a "diversion of funds for an inappropriate purpose" .
I am sure that all of those amongst us that donated for Tsunami relief think that is a good cause for homeless and hungry to learn to surf??
The real estate industry will flourish , fish will have a home and the science of reef design will be funded further.
No better causes I say for our "dough" , bournemouth will be proud of what it is helping to happen by encouraging the surf reef industry.
The scientists of ASR are proud that they are really helping where it counts.
All up a "well done " ASR and its supporters.

"mommy I'm hungry will be rewarded with - just have a surf u will be ok!

Helmet & General Moaning.

Why are u wearing a helmet in that photo prior to the reef, strikes me as a little strange? A

lso you should be grateful you have so much surf and places to do it, and also the effort that has been made to try and improve your situation.

www.olosurfer.com You guys

www.olosurfer.com

You guys are really out of touch, the reef is a complete failure and is actually sinking into the sand, as determined by physics.

The surf at Tay st was excellent prior to the reef, now it is not. . .. drastically reducing the quality of waves there has cost over a milllion dollars.

My Gath surfing helmet has nothing to do with artificial reefs, it is a great surfing accessory and I won't enter the water without one. . . it redces glare and sn damage to the eyes, it protects the head and prevents surfers ear.

Ifyo think that wearing a helmet is strange then you are obviously a fashion victim whose brain is operating on zero level, or close to it.

Forum Freeze

The forum is not handling so many replys to a single post well and is becoming difficult to read - so I'm freezing it. Please start a new thread in the forum if you want to carry on with this discussion.

--
sam@surfcore